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	<title>Comments on: Arizona State Legislature</title>
	<link>http://ericstoller.com/blog/2008/04/19/arizona-state-legislature/</link>
	<description>| social justice | higher education | technology |</description>
	<pubDate>Fri, 05 Sep 2008 17:20:56 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>by: Britt Q.</title>
		<link>http://ericstoller.com/blog/2008/04/19/arizona-state-legislature/#comment-24136</link>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Apr 2008 02:06:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://ericstoller.com/blog/2008/04/19/arizona-state-legislature/#comment-24136</guid>
					<description>Erm... am I crazy or is just a little ironic that banning schools from teaching matters counter to democracy a counter to democracy in itself?

----------------------------


And in re to FinanceBuzz:

"However, whether you like it or not, English is the predominant language in this country and has been since the inception of the nation."

When this country was "incepted", the southwestern, midwestern and northwestern territories were all under Spanish rule.  When this country was "incepted", Alaska was still a Russian territory, and was until the late 1860s.  And you know, when this country was "incepted", let's not forget there were thousands of American Indians and First Nations people of all affiliation and cultures.  I reckon English was not the dominant language in any of these territories or amongst any of those groups.  

"To expect people who move here to learn the predominant language of Americans when engaging in daily contact with business and government is not unreasonable. They made the choice to come here. I and other Americans should not have to learn their language because of a decision they made."  

So when we European-originated, white, English-speakers moved westward (thanks Manifest Destiny!) by your logic shouldn't they have learned the predominant languages in those territories?  And if they did not want to learn them, perhaps then they should've gone back to where they came from...!

White English-speaking Europeans made the choice to come here, too.  And we certainly did not learn the "predominant" languages like Spanish, Inuktitut, Hawaiian, French, Cherokee...

Just a thought.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Erm&#8230; am I crazy or is just a little ironic that banning schools from teaching matters counter to democracy a counter to democracy in itself?</p>
<p>&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;-</p>
<p>And in re to FinanceBuzz:</p>
<p>&#8220;However, whether you like it or not, English is the predominant language in this country and has been since the inception of the nation.&#8221;</p>
<p>When this country was &#8220;incepted&#8221;, the southwestern, midwestern and northwestern territories were all under Spanish rule.  When this country was &#8220;incepted&#8221;, Alaska was still a Russian territory, and was until the late 1860s.  And you know, when this country was &#8220;incepted&#8221;, let&#8217;s not forget there were thousands of American Indians and First Nations people of all affiliation and cultures.  I reckon English was not the dominant language in any of these territories or amongst any of those groups.  </p>
<p>&#8220;To expect people who move here to learn the predominant language of Americans when engaging in daily contact with business and government is not unreasonable. They made the choice to come here. I and other Americans should not have to learn their language because of a decision they made.&#8221;  </p>
<p>So when we European-originated, white, English-speakers moved westward (thanks Manifest Destiny!) by your logic shouldn&#8217;t they have learned the predominant languages in those territories?  And if they did not want to learn them, perhaps then they should&#8217;ve gone back to where they came from&#8230;!</p>
<p>White English-speaking Europeans made the choice to come here, too.  And we certainly did not learn the &#8220;predominant&#8221; languages like Spanish, Inuktitut, Hawaiian, French, Cherokee&#8230;</p>
<p>Just a thought.
</p>
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		<title>by: FinanceBuzz</title>
		<link>http://ericstoller.com/blog/2008/04/19/arizona-state-legislature/#comment-24045</link>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Apr 2008 04:10:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://ericstoller.com/blog/2008/04/19/arizona-state-legislature/#comment-24045</guid>
					<description>You dual standards are showing here.

&lt;blockquote&gt;Organizations of white people are almost never named as the white this or that, they exist as “the organization.” &lt;/blockquote&gt;

This is simply more spin to put things in a racial context.  If the local chapter of, say, the Young Democrats (and I use Democrats because I am going to give you the opportunity to spread your bias by suggesting all Republicans are racist), have a majority of white students as members.  That does NOT, in any way, make them a white organization in the vein a Afro-American Student Association.  The former is a club where the racial makeup happens to be majority white.  The latter is an organization whose focus is based around a race and, I presume, issues important to that race.  It is your filter that is imparting race simply because of the majority count of white people in a group.

&lt;blockquote&gt;There are many languages that are spoken by many peoples in the U.S. and there are many signs and documents in several languages too.&lt;/blockquote&gt;
I do not see French or German on the signs on every aisle in Home Depot, I see Spanish.  I do not see Portuguese on the gas pumps at the local gas station, I see Spanish.  Again, someone of your perspective (in this case) resorts to inaccurate name-calling when someone does not agree with your point.  Xenophobia is defined by the Merriam-Webster dictionary as "fear and hatred of strangers or foreigners or of anything that is strange or foreign."  If you would bother to actually consider the points I make, you could not possibly come to the conclusion that I have any fear of foreign people.  I do have a &lt;strong&gt;concern&lt;/strong&gt; that I will see the American culture as I grew up with cease to exist in my lifetime, but this is not the same as a fear of others.  I find the stories of many immigrants who come to America seeking the freedom this country offers to be quite inspiring.  Often, these people have a greater appreciation for this country than do many "native" Americans.  Thus, your characterization is wholly inaccurate but it does allow you to not address the point - why is having English demoted as a sole, primary language not important?  You may choose to take a counter position to mine, but have the courage to state that position rather than cowering behind name calling.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You dual standards are showing here.</p>
<blockquote><p>Organizations of white people are almost never named as the white this or that, they exist as “the organization.” </p></blockquote>
<p>This is simply more spin to put things in a racial context.  If the local chapter of, say, the Young Democrats (and I use Democrats because I am going to give you the opportunity to spread your bias by suggesting all Republicans are racist), have a majority of white students as members.  That does NOT, in any way, make them a white organization in the vein a Afro-American Student Association.  The former is a club where the racial makeup happens to be majority white.  The latter is an organization whose focus is based around a race and, I presume, issues important to that race.  It is your filter that is imparting race simply because of the majority count of white people in a group.</p>
<blockquote><p>There are many languages that are spoken by many peoples in the U.S. and there are many signs and documents in several languages too.</p></blockquote>
<p>I do not see French or German on the signs on every aisle in Home Depot, I see Spanish.  I do not see Portuguese on the gas pumps at the local gas station, I see Spanish.  Again, someone of your perspective (in this case) resorts to inaccurate name-calling when someone does not agree with your point.  Xenophobia is defined by the Merriam-Webster dictionary as &#8220;fear and hatred of strangers or foreigners or of anything that is strange or foreign.&#8221;  If you would bother to actually consider the points I make, you could not possibly come to the conclusion that I have any fear of foreign people.  I do have a <strong>concern</strong> that I will see the American culture as I grew up with cease to exist in my lifetime, but this is not the same as a fear of others.  I find the stories of many immigrants who come to America seeking the freedom this country offers to be quite inspiring.  Often, these people have a greater appreciation for this country than do many &#8220;native&#8221; Americans.  Thus, your characterization is wholly inaccurate but it does allow you to not address the point - why is having English demoted as a sole, primary language not important?  You may choose to take a counter position to mine, but have the courage to state that position rather than cowering behind name calling.
</p>
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		<title>by: Eric Stoller</title>
		<link>http://ericstoller.com/blog/2008/04/19/arizona-state-legislature/#comment-24035</link>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Apr 2008 02:08:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://ericstoller.com/blog/2008/04/19/arizona-state-legislature/#comment-24035</guid>
					<description>Dear Derek Brian Cook aka FinanceBuzz of the newly create blog - &lt;a href="http://www.gwinnettbuzz.com/"&gt;Gwinnett Buzz&lt;/a&gt;,

Once again, the invisibility of whiteness fails to creep past...the organizations that are mentioned in the article are organizations of color. Organizations of white people are almost never named as the white this or that, they exist as "the organization." Whiteness becomes invisible when it is the dominant social norm of the dominant paradigm.

I'm not sure how you went from freedom to assemble to an English only trope. I suspect that sometimes xenophobic tendencies are difficult to break. German was spoken by quite a few people prior to the World Wars and anti-German sentiment. There are many languages that are spoken by many peoples in the U.S. and there are many signs and documents in several languages too. 

In closing, this particular sentence does not make any sense:&lt;blockquote&gt;
"I and other Americans should not have to learn their language because of a decision they made. "&lt;/blockquote&gt; 

I don't think that anyone ever said that you had to learn "their" (code for the "other" btw) language. It would just be swell of you if you would just accept languages other than English as being allowable in your county, state and country! Have you been to a major metropolitan city in the U.S.? There are signs in all sorts of languages. English, Spanish, Hindi, Japanese, Korean, Vietnamese, Chinese, etc. You don't have to learn any language other than English.  I just wish you weren't so damned xenophobic about anything outside of your straight, white, male identity.

PS: I am so bummed that you unfriended me on Facebook. You think you know someone...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dear Derek Brian Cook aka FinanceBuzz of the newly create blog - <a href="http://www.gwinnettbuzz.com/">Gwinnett Buzz</a>,</p>
<p>Once again, the invisibility of whiteness fails to creep past&#8230;the organizations that are mentioned in the article are organizations of color. Organizations of white people are almost never named as the white this or that, they exist as &#8220;the organization.&#8221; Whiteness becomes invisible when it is the dominant social norm of the dominant paradigm.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m not sure how you went from freedom to assemble to an English only trope. I suspect that sometimes xenophobic tendencies are difficult to break. German was spoken by quite a few people prior to the World Wars and anti-German sentiment. There are many languages that are spoken by many peoples in the U.S. and there are many signs and documents in several languages too. </p>
<p>In closing, this particular sentence does not make any sense:<br />
<blockquote>
&#8220;I and other Americans should not have to learn their language because of a decision they made. &#8220;</p></blockquote>
<p>I don&#8217;t think that anyone ever said that you had to learn &#8220;their&#8221; (code for the &#8220;other&#8221; btw) language. It would just be swell of you if you would just accept languages other than English as being allowable in your county, state and country! Have you been to a major metropolitan city in the U.S.? There are signs in all sorts of languages. English, Spanish, Hindi, Japanese, Korean, Vietnamese, Chinese, etc. You don&#8217;t have to learn any language other than English.  I just wish you weren&#8217;t so damned xenophobic about anything outside of your straight, white, male identity.</p>
<p>PS: I am so bummed that you unfriended me on Facebook. You think you know someone&#8230;
</p>
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		<title>by: FinanceBuzz</title>
		<link>http://ericstoller.com/blog/2008/04/19/arizona-state-legislature/#comment-23965</link>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Apr 2008 01:00:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://ericstoller.com/blog/2008/04/19/arizona-state-legislature/#comment-23965</guid>
					<description>I will say first that I do not see how they can prohibit freedom of assembly, nor should they be able to.  I want to state that clearly so that we do not have to debate the main point here - I think we agree on that one.

I have to take issue with you trying to spin this into a "white supremacist" event.  You say:
&lt;em&gt;
note that groups that are all or mostly white are not mentioned&lt;/em&gt;
I do not see too many White Students Associations or the  White Engineers Society.  So you are setting a nice straw man for you to knock down.

Secondly, to suggest that we expect other cultures to assimilate into America does not tell them to throw their culture identity away.  American encompasses many aspects of a variety of cultures.  However, whether you like it or not, English is the predominant language in this country and has been since the inception of the nation.  To expect people who move here to learn the predominant language of Americans when engaging in daily contact with business and government is not unreasonable.  They made the choice to come here.  I and other Americans should not have to learn their language because of a decision they made.  To attempt to put this into your color-sensitive paradigm is simply agenda-spin on your part.

I will note as this is my first post since it has started, my blog is open for business.  Right now it is focused on local issues - development, growth, taxes, schools, politics - in my home county in metro Atlanta.  However, I did enter a long post entitled "English, please!" on this very topic last night.  I go into more depth on the above points there.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I will say first that I do not see how they can prohibit freedom of assembly, nor should they be able to.  I want to state that clearly so that we do not have to debate the main point here - I think we agree on that one.</p>
<p>I have to take issue with you trying to spin this into a &#8220;white supremacist&#8221; event.  You say:<br />
<em><br />
note that groups that are all or mostly white are not mentioned</em><br />
I do not see too many White Students Associations or the  White Engineers Society.  So you are setting a nice straw man for you to knock down.</p>
<p>Secondly, to suggest that we expect other cultures to assimilate into America does not tell them to throw their culture identity away.  American encompasses many aspects of a variety of cultures.  However, whether you like it or not, English is the predominant language in this country and has been since the inception of the nation.  To expect people who move here to learn the predominant language of Americans when engaging in daily contact with business and government is not unreasonable.  They made the choice to come here.  I and other Americans should not have to learn their language because of a decision they made.  To attempt to put this into your color-sensitive paradigm is simply agenda-spin on your part.</p>
<p>I will note as this is my first post since it has started, my blog is open for business.  Right now it is focused on local issues - development, growth, taxes, schools, politics - in my home county in metro Atlanta.  However, I did enter a long post entitled &#8220;English, please!&#8221; on this very topic last night.  I go into more depth on the above points there.
</p>
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