Comments on: Substantial Cruelty Sanctioned by US Government http://ericstoller.com/blog/2006/11/03/substantial-cruelty-sanctioned-by-us-government/ | social justice | higher education | technology | Thu, 08 Jan 2009 11:57:16 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.0.7 by: Joseph http://ericstoller.com/blog/2006/11/03/substantial-cruelty-sanctioned-by-us-government/#comment-3439 Wed, 13 Dec 2006 23:15:33 +0000 http://ericstoller.com/blog/2006/11/03/substantial-cruelty-sanctioned-by-us-government/#comment-3439 Eric, I have no problem engaging in dialogue, you are however the only person I can think of who has not issued a personal attack of some sort towards me for my opinions. It is nice to be able to disagree with someone who doesn't make personal attacks. Hmmm I take your point on undocumented people not being able to vote. But I see no problem with that. IMO I do not think someone who broke the law in coming to the U.S.A. deserves the privilege of voting. When someones breaks the Law the are not rewarded with special privileges. And those here illegally their first act in the U.S.A. was to break the Law. Eric,
I have no problem engaging in dialogue, you are however the only person I can think of who has not issued a personal attack of some sort towards me for my opinions. It is nice to be able to disagree with someone who doesn’t make personal attacks.

Hmmm I take your point on undocumented people not being able to vote. But I see no problem with that. IMO I do not think someone who broke the law in coming to the U.S.A. deserves the privilege of voting. When someones breaks the Law the are not rewarded with special privileges. And those here illegally their first act in the U.S.A. was to break the Law.

]]> by: Eric Stoller http://ericstoller.com/blog/2006/11/03/substantial-cruelty-sanctioned-by-us-government/#comment-3361 Fri, 08 Dec 2006 03:27:33 +0000 http://ericstoller.com/blog/2006/11/03/substantial-cruelty-sanctioned-by-us-government/#comment-3361 Undocumented individuals cannot vote. Therefore, they do not have the institutional power to affect change. You are absolutely correct about folks with marginalized identities holding political offices. However, the dominant institutional power political paradigm still consists of heterosexual, white, men, middle to upper class, temporarily able-bodied, and Christian. The majority of undocumented persons in the United States are Latino. If the majority of undocumented individuals in the US were Canadian, I do not think that policies like this one would pass. So, to sum up, this policy is racist because it targets undocumented people who are 99% certain to be Latino. It's part of a process called "othering" in which a persons dignity is stripped from them and they are turned into <a href="http://ericstoller.com/blog/2006/03/31/the-common-elements-of-oppressions/#theother">the "other."</a> I feel that this comment thread has been very worthwhile to both of us. I'm glad that you have continued to engage in a dialogue with me. Undocumented individuals cannot vote. Therefore, they do not have the institutional power to affect change. You are absolutely correct about folks with marginalized identities holding political offices. However, the dominant institutional power political paradigm still consists of heterosexual, white, men, middle to upper class, temporarily able-bodied, and Christian.

The majority of undocumented persons in the United States are Latino. If the majority of undocumented individuals in the US were Canadian, I do not think that policies like this one would pass. So, to sum up, this policy is racist because it targets undocumented people who are 99% certain to be Latino. It’s part of a process called “othering” in which a persons dignity is stripped from them and they are turned into the “other.”

I feel that this comment thread has been very worthwhile to both of us. I’m glad that you have continued to engage in a dialogue with me.

]]> by: Joseph http://ericstoller.com/blog/2006/11/03/substantial-cruelty-sanctioned-by-us-government/#comment-3195 Wed, 15 Nov 2006 21:23:03 +0000 http://ericstoller.com/blog/2006/11/03/substantial-cruelty-sanctioned-by-us-government/#comment-3195 When it comes to creating the Laws of the U.S. I would say we all have a hand in it, provided you vote. It is our elected officials who make policy changes, which translates into the will of the people. And last time I checked we actually do have elected officials who are not white, who are homosexual/Lesbian, people with diabilities(hmm we've even had a few presidents with disabilities, FDR and JFK come to mind). As for the enforcement of the Laws last time I checked there are people of all colors and back grounds working in Law Enforcement. And I still do not see how the Medicaid policy is racist, because it does not only target illegal immigrants of Latino decent, it targets everyone who is in the U.S. illegally or undocument if you prefer. Now if this policy only applied to undocumented immigrants of Latino decent I would agree with you completely. It seems you want to give the undocumented immigrants a free pass, that is what I can not agree with, if you break the Law you deserve to be punished for it. However I will agree that the penalty of this policy is rather high. When it comes to creating the Laws of the U.S. I would say we all have a hand in it, provided you vote. It is our elected officials who make policy changes, which translates into the will of the people. And last time I checked we actually do have elected officials who are not white, who are homosexual/Lesbian, people with diabilities(hmm we’ve even had a few presidents with disabilities, FDR and JFK come to mind). As for the enforcement of the Laws last time I checked there are people of all colors and back grounds working in Law Enforcement. And I still do not see how the Medicaid policy is racist, because it does not only target illegal immigrants of Latino decent, it targets everyone who is in the U.S. illegally or undocument if you prefer. Now if this policy only applied to undocumented immigrants of Latino decent I would agree with you completely. It seems you want to give the undocumented immigrants a free pass, that is what I can not agree with, if you break the Law you deserve to be punished for it. However I will agree that the penalty of this policy is rather high.

]]> by: Eric Stoller http://ericstoller.com/blog/2006/11/03/substantial-cruelty-sanctioned-by-us-government/#comment-3191 Wed, 15 Nov 2006 01:32:48 +0000 http://ericstoller.com/blog/2006/11/03/substantial-cruelty-sanctioned-by-us-government/#comment-3191 @ Joseph, You hit the nail on the head...in this country "we" do not treat everyone equally. Therefore, stating that everyone receives the same treatment actually covers up the inequalities that exist in this country. The Medicaid policy is racist because it targets undocumented individuals who are most likely Latino. <strong>Who makes and enforces the laws in this country? </strong> Do People of Color make the laws in this country? Do atheists? Do people with disabilities. Do folks who identify as Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, Transgender, Queer, Questioning, or Intersex? Do people with high financial need? The law is part of the institutionalized systems of oppression in this country. If you have time, please read <a href="http://ericstoller.com/blog/2006/03/31/the-common-elements-of-oppressions/#commonelementsofoppression">The Common Elements of Oppressions by Suzanne Pharr</a>. <blockquote>“<a href="http://ericstoller.com/blog/index.php/2005/12/01/white-privilege-shapes-the-us/">Privilege blinds members of the dominant paradigm</a> to the importance/meaning of identity.”</blockquote> <strong>Did you ever wonder how I knew you were white?</strong> It took me a long time to answer the question: what's good about being white? I came up with an answer that sits well with my soul. I get to be an anti-racist educator/activist. <strong>How would you define the importance or meaning of being white?</strong> BTW, I didn't say that you were xenophobic. I said that "Unfortunately, xenophobia is alive and well in this country." @ Joseph,
You hit the nail on the head…in this country “we” do not treat everyone equally. Therefore, stating that everyone receives the same treatment actually covers up the inequalities that exist in this country. The Medicaid policy is racist because it targets undocumented individuals who are most likely Latino.

Who makes and enforces the laws in this country?
Do People of Color make the laws in this country? Do atheists? Do people with disabilities. Do folks who identify as Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, Transgender, Queer, Questioning, or Intersex? Do people with high financial need?

The law is part of the institutionalized systems of oppression in this country. If you have time, please read The Common Elements of Oppressions by Suzanne Pharr.

“Privilege blinds members of the dominant paradigm to the importance/meaning of identity.”

Did you ever wonder how I knew you were white?

It took me a long time to answer the question: what’s good about being white?

I came up with an answer that sits well with my soul. I get to be an anti-racist educator/activist.

How would you define the importance or meaning of being white?

BTW, I didn’t say that you were xenophobic. I said that “Unfortunately, xenophobia is alive and well in this country.”

]]> by: Joseph http://ericstoller.com/blog/2006/11/03/substantial-cruelty-sanctioned-by-us-government/#comment-3190 Wed, 15 Nov 2006 01:14:06 +0000 http://ericstoller.com/blog/2006/11/03/substantial-cruelty-sanctioned-by-us-government/#comment-3190 So pretty much your whole argument is that since I feel that no one has the right to break the Law I must be a xenophobe. How exactly does that make me a xenophobe? Ummm is this some sort of argument: "Privilege blinds members of the dominant paradigm to the importance/meaning of identity." What kind of argument is that? If I formed a group to share the importance and meaning of being white you would call me a no good racist. So, some how my arument that "we should treat all people the same" is xenophobic and racist? Can you explain to me how treating everyone the same is xenophobic and racist? So pretty much your whole argument is that since I feel that no one has the right to break the Law I must be a xenophobe. How exactly does that make me a xenophobe?

Ummm is this some sort of argument:
“Privilege blinds members of the dominant paradigm to the importance/meaning of identity.”
What kind of argument is that? If I formed a group to share the importance and meaning of being white you would call me a no good racist.

So, some how my arument that “we should treat all people the same” is xenophobic and racist? Can you explain to me how treating everyone the same is xenophobic and racist?

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