Comments on: Chief Illiniwek needs to stop dancing http://ericstoller.com/blog/2006/09/22/chief-illiniwek-needs-to-stop-dancing/ | social justice | higher education | technology | Thu, 08 Jan 2009 11:58:55 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.0.7 by: Eric Dwight http://ericstoller.com/blog/2006/09/22/chief-illiniwek-needs-to-stop-dancing/#comment-2970 Mon, 25 Sep 2006 21:21:58 +0000 http://ericstoller.com/blog/2006/09/22/chief-illiniwek-needs-to-stop-dancing/#comment-2970 <a href="http://ericstoller.com/blog/2006/09/25/chief-illiniwek-needs-to-be-discontinued/">Here is my response</a> Here is my response

]]> by: erik http://ericstoller.com/blog/2006/09/22/chief-illiniwek-needs-to-stop-dancing/#comment-2956 Sun, 24 Sep 2006 08:01:54 +0000 http://ericstoller.com/blog/2006/09/22/chief-illiniwek-needs-to-stop-dancing/#comment-2956 This problem of groups trying to control their image in entertainment and media goes back a long way. The gays tried to get the movie "Cruising" banned, the Christians didnt like Christ portrayed as the husband of Mary magdaline and the Jews didnt like "The Passion fo the Christ".The Islamics didnt like a book someone wrote or cartoons or what the Pope said. The English dont like the way we teach the history of the Revolutionary War and the Germans are fed up with hearing about Hitler. So why dont the Native Americans like Chief Illiniwek?They say he is not authentic in his dress or dance. Well, I guess all Indians dressed alike and danced alike. I guess there was no room for creativity among individuals. Since the Chief is a fictional character, can he not dress and dance as he wishes as long as its not obscene? These people are such purists about the Chief but not about building casinos in the pristeen wilderness. I dont hear any complaints about violations of these sacred areas like Grand Marais with trash, busloads of white boy gamblers etc. I wonder what the difference is? $$$ The NCAA needs to get back to drug inforcement and leave these sociological issues to be worked out by the University. The funny thing about all of this is that the people the anti chief group are attacking are (were) some of the most broad minded, progressive people around.I grew up in Urbana and can say I NEVER heard a racial slur spoken in my own house or in the houses of my friends all of which attend Illinois. games. the way the anti-chief crowd have conducted themselves in this battle has used up more than a little of that good will. This problem of groups trying to control their image in entertainment and media goes back a long way. The gays tried to get the movie “Cruising” banned, the Christians didnt like Christ portrayed as the husband of Mary magdaline and the Jews didnt like “The Passion fo the Christ”.The Islamics didnt like a book someone wrote or cartoons or what the Pope said. The English dont like the way we teach the history of the Revolutionary War and the Germans are fed up with hearing about Hitler. So why dont the Native Americans like Chief Illiniwek?They say he is not authentic in his dress or dance. Well, I guess all Indians dressed alike and danced alike. I guess there was no room for creativity among individuals. Since the Chief is a fictional character, can he not dress and dance as he wishes as long as its not obscene? These people are such purists about the Chief but not about building casinos in the pristeen wilderness. I dont hear any complaints about violations of these sacred areas like Grand Marais with trash, busloads of white boy gamblers etc. I wonder what the difference is? $$$ The NCAA needs to get back to drug inforcement and leave these sociological issues to be worked out by the University. The funny thing about all of this is that the people the anti chief group are attacking are (were) some of the most broad minded, progressive people around.I grew up in Urbana and can say I NEVER heard a racial slur spoken in my own house or in the houses of my friends all of which attend Illinois. games. the way the anti-chief crowd have conducted themselves in this battle has used up more than a little of that good will.

]]> by: Lyn http://ericstoller.com/blog/2006/09/22/chief-illiniwek-needs-to-stop-dancing/#comment-2954 Sun, 24 Sep 2006 03:16:00 +0000 http://ericstoller.com/blog/2006/09/22/chief-illiniwek-needs-to-stop-dancing/#comment-2954 The court struck a blow for freedom from the tyranny of the few. No where in the constitution did it ever say we have a right not to be offended. It does say we have a right to free expression. I really don’t care if a white kid, green kid or whatever portrays the fictional character of Chief Illiniwek. I don’t care if the dance is too authentic or not authentic enough. It is entertainment, it is imagination, performance and in the world of pretend. It doesn’t have to measure up to all of these standards set by the aggrieved group. There is no proof that the Chief or the dance has caused one hate crime against Native Americans or even devalued Native Americans in the eyes of the beholders, namely fans. In fact the majority of witnesses say it has made them more admiring of Native Americans. Now if that is the way the overwhelming majority of people who have actually watched Chief Illiniwek dance feel then I say he is a force for good. If some Native Americans find offense, maybe they are overly sensitive. I wonder how many things that are said and portrayed on the reservations would offend white people. I have personally seen some very offensive flyers. The greatest “offense” in this whole business has been the behavior and attitude of the anti chief crowd with their self centered lets see how much mileage we can get out of the past sufferings of our people mentality. The truth is their holier than thou mentality(conveniently denying the part Native Americans had in helping to eliminate each other, including women and children) and uncompromising attitude has done more harm to the "image of native Americans" than a thousand Chief Illiniweks can do. The idea that only the feelings of actual Native Americans should count on this issue is backassed since it is supposedly the image of Native Americans as perceived by the larger population that is at stake her. The larger population overwhelming sees the Chief as a positive figure. Let freedom of expression win. The court struck a blow for freedom from the tyranny of the few. No where in the constitution did it ever say we have a right not to be offended. It does say we have a right to free expression. I really don’t care if a white kid, green kid or whatever portrays the fictional character of Chief Illiniwek. I don’t care if the dance is too authentic or not authentic enough. It is entertainment, it is imagination, performance and in the world of pretend. It doesn’t have to measure up to all of these standards set by the aggrieved group. There is no proof that the Chief or the dance has caused one hate crime against Native Americans or even devalued Native Americans in the eyes of the beholders, namely fans. In fact the majority of witnesses say it has made them more admiring of Native Americans. Now if that is the way the overwhelming majority of people who have actually watched Chief Illiniwek dance feel then I say he is a force for good. If some Native Americans find offense, maybe they are overly sensitive. I wonder how many things that are said and portrayed on the reservations would offend white people. I have personally seen some very offensive flyers. The greatest “offense” in this whole business has been the behavior and attitude of the anti chief crowd with their self centered lets see how much mileage we can get out of the past sufferings of our people mentality. The truth is their holier than thou mentality(conveniently denying the part Native Americans had in helping to eliminate each other, including women and children) and uncompromising attitude has done more harm to the “image of native Americans” than a thousand Chief Illiniweks can do. The idea that only the feelings of actual Native Americans should count on this issue is backassed since it is supposedly the image of Native Americans as perceived by the larger population that is at stake her. The larger population overwhelming sees the Chief as a positive figure. Let freedom of expression win.

]]> by: Michael Smith http://ericstoller.com/blog/2006/09/22/chief-illiniwek-needs-to-stop-dancing/#comment-2950 Fri, 22 Sep 2006 21:57:05 +0000 http://ericstoller.com/blog/2006/09/22/chief-illiniwek-needs-to-stop-dancing/#comment-2950 I’ll admit some bias as a former member of the Marching Illini (U of I’s Marching Band), but the school has gone to great lengths to ensure that “chief” was always portrayed in a respectful manner. In the early 80’s one of the tribes from the Dakota’s honored the school citing the “awareness” that the chief helped promote. The vast majority of the complaints against the chief come from non-native sources who are unfamiliar with the tradition as it is used at Illinois. And just how far should we go to ban the “offensive” use of native symbols in the name of political correctness? Should the state of Illinois have to change its name? I fully support sensitivity to these issues and wouldn’t suggest we tolerate the “Braves” or “Redskins” any more than we’d tolerate “Crackers” or “Negroes”, but let’s keep the indignation in proportion. You’re overreacting if you find offense in Chief Illiniwek. I’ll admit some bias as a former member of the Marching Illini (U of I’s Marching Band), but the school has gone to great lengths to ensure that “chief” was always portrayed in a respectful manner. In the early 80’s one of the tribes from the Dakota’s honored the school citing the “awareness” that the chief helped promote.

The vast majority of the complaints against the chief come from non-native sources who are unfamiliar with the tradition as it is used at Illinois.

And just how far should we go to ban the “offensive” use of native symbols in the name of political correctness? Should the state of Illinois have to change its name? I fully support sensitivity to these issues and wouldn’t suggest we tolerate the “Braves” or “Redskins” any more than we’d tolerate “Crackers” or “Negroes”, but let’s keep the indignation in proportion. You’re overreacting if you find offense in Chief Illiniwek.

]]> by: PAgent http://ericstoller.com/blog/2006/09/22/chief-illiniwek-needs-to-stop-dancing/#comment-2949 Fri, 22 Sep 2006 20:57:33 +0000 http://ericstoller.com/blog/2006/09/22/chief-illiniwek-needs-to-stop-dancing/#comment-2949 I have been interested in this controversy since it began gathering steam back in the '90s. Having seen firsthand how Chief Illiniwek is portrayed, I am a bit mystified as to what is offensive about it. The Chief is not depicted as cartoonish, or stereotypical. The performances by the Chief at home games are silent, and highly athletic, and incorporate aspects of traditional native dance. Is it the fact that the Chief is typically portrayed by a white student the aspect that is offensive? Then why not say so explicitly? While I understand wanting to dispense of the idiot grinning Cleveland Indians mascot, and can't defend the name of the Washington Redskins, I just can't muster the same outrage for Chief Illiniwek. I can't help but wonder if this is another step toward the generalization that ANY depiction of a Native North American is offensive, regardless of content or context. I have been interested in this controversy since it began gathering steam back in the ’90s. Having seen firsthand how Chief Illiniwek is portrayed, I am a bit mystified as to what is offensive about it. The Chief is not depicted as cartoonish, or stereotypical. The performances by the Chief at home games are silent, and highly athletic, and incorporate aspects of traditional native dance.

Is it the fact that the Chief is typically portrayed by a white student the aspect that is offensive? Then why not say so explicitly?

While I understand wanting to dispense of the idiot grinning Cleveland Indians mascot, and can’t defend the name of the Washington Redskins, I just can’t muster the same outrage for Chief Illiniwek. I can’t help but wonder if this is another step toward the generalization that ANY depiction of a Native North American is offensive, regardless of content or context.

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